#27: How StockCo can help you on your land ownership journey with Angus Creedon

Welcome to Episode 27 of A Place To Call Home Podcast.

On this Episode we chat to Angus Creedon from Stockco. This is a bit of a special episode, because not only does Angus share his insights into StockCo and what they do, Angus also share some of his own land ownership story.

Throughout this Episode we chat about.
- What is StockCo and what do they do
- How can you utilise StockCo for your land ownership journey
- Some of the Terms around the StockCo Loan
- Pros and Cons of StockCo
- Angus land owneship journey
- Buying a starter block
- Running a Brahman Stud

You can find out more about Angus and StockCo on their socials and website.
Trading Finance - StockCo Australia
StockCo (@stockcoau) • Instagram photos and videos
StockCo 100% Livestock Finance | LinkedIn

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This episode is brought to you by,
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Transcript

Sam Fryer: [00:00:00] Angus, thank you very much for jumping on the Place To Call Home podcast. Mate, before we get too far ahead of ourselves, can you tell me a bit more about yourself?

Um, where do you live? What do you do? And throw in a few dad stats if you have any. 

Angus Creedon: Thanks, Sam. Uh, thanks for inviting me on and great to get in here before, uh, you become Joe Rogan famous.

So, mate, just a bit about myself briefly. I live in Garnet just north of Rockhampton. Um, we've got a great, uh, along with myself and my parents. We We run a bit of a commercial operation on the side as well. Um, married with with 3 lovely young children.

We'll have 3 under 3 at 1 point there. Uh, we and I'll have and I and I work full time for the stock co lost stock finance company. 

Sam Fryer: Mate, I'm gonna come back to the stock co because it's that's the reason why you're on board. I had some a lot of questions that I hope you can answer anyway about stock co what you guys do, but [00:01:00] a bit more about yourself, where did you grow up? And, um, also, where'd you go to school?

Angus Creedon: So I grew up in Middlemount. Uh, we've got a property there that mom and dad bought 30 odd years ago now, a bit more. Uh, dad's a dad's a builder by trade, so he's Nestled himself into the middle of that community, and then mom looks after the the stud side as well. Uh, so we it grew up there, went to school, went to stat school, and then went across to Rocky Grammar School, uh, for for my boarding years, which I was very fortunate to do so. Uh, so we're sort of what was that?

Put me third generation, I suppose, grazier as such. Uh, and my dad originally from from Brisbane And mum from down in the South Australia, New South Wales. So, yeah, based been based at, uh, at Middlemount now for Basically, my whole life and and then did the schooling, yeah, everything going. 

Sam Fryer: Mate, and before we get into [00:02:00] Stockholm, what what was your journey towards before you started there? What have what have you been up to since you left school?

Uh, I got you a good 

Angus Creedon: question. So, uh, uh, did did the boarding school thing, then I was fortunate enough to get accepted into vet school up in Townsville, uh, and into the second intake they had there in 2007. So that was sort of my passion was has been cattle the whole time, and all I wanna do was, uh, was cattle be a cattle vet. Uh, got up to Townsville, enjoyed the enjoyed the cattle side and the large animal side, but I just I just wasn't built to, uh, To look after cats and dogs and and goldfish. And, um, so I, uh, I actually I I dropped that, and I came home back to middle man, and I worked for the Anderson family, just down the road.

So they have a mixed farming and grazing operation about 30000 acres. So that was My, I suppose, my blooding into the ag industry, uh, it was, you know, [00:03:00] fantastic couple of years there where I learned everything You came from breeding, fattening, farming, the whole the whole work. So very fortunate for those for those few years. And then I suppose that got me thinking about what I wanted to do longer term, so I enrolled in production animal science at Gatton in UK, and I did that course externally over 5 years with the idea of, you know, at that time, they said everyone was saying that, you know, a a university degree helps with what you wanna do professionally, so I went and did that. And and it was it was a good degree.

Don't worry. It is it it gave me a lot of Baseline stuff for for moving forward in my professional life, and then I, uh, so I did that externally. And the whole time I was doing that, I was doing Repro works. So preg testing AI and audio, that sort of stuff on the side. And, uh, we sort of ran into Bit of a drought, and I ended up getting a job with [00:04:00] Alenka Animal Health.

So I was I was a rep for those guys looking after Central and Western Queensland, so selling HCPs, thick benches, all those sort of things. Um, so that was good. That gave me a a look into the corporate world. Um, and then I've always had a interest in in finance, and I and I love numbers and did quite well with that at school site, ended up getting in paying a role with Stopco, uh, and and have been there 6 years. And and in that time, we've We've been married.

We've got 3 kids, as I said before, and and in December 21, we, yeah, purchased our plates. So, uh, uh, that's basically up to date in in a nutshell. 

Sam Fryer: Mate, this sounds like a bit of a journey. And 1 thing I wanna touch on though is I'm curious is your thoughts around that. Like, you mentioned about getting a degree and how it's helped you in the corporate world.

Did it, like I did my degree and I, and I found the [00:05:00] same thing, but it also opened my mind a bit. Like, you you know, I went from probably very very much a micro view of what was happening around us in our area, around home and stuff like that to to really, like, broaden my scope and my scope of thinking, did you find that a little bit, or what was your degree 

Angus Creedon: like? No. For sure. And Takes you out of, uh, your comfort zone and where you grew up, I suppose you get the degree that you get is is part of it, but then I think it's the contacts you make and the opportunities that come from that, uh, is is I'm sure everyone who's done a degree has found that at some point, And I think that was relevant for my, uh, for my career moving up moving forward from there, uh, but It also just helps with that when you when you are applying for roles that they they can see you've you've had a tertiary education, which means you'd I mean, we wouldn't say we're always diligent at university, but it means, you know, you [00:06:00] can you tick a few boxes from that point of view when it comes to Professional job.

So, uh, yeah. No. Definitely. 

Sam Fryer: Yeah. I'd I'd have to definitely do a share that to my wife.

I did mine externally, and I think she definitely help with a lot of the projects, if I didn't if I didn't have her, I don't think I would have a degree. That 

Angus Creedon: was all the coloring in. That's it. 

Sam Fryer: But touching on stock co, for us that don't know anything about it, um, we're very new to it, what is Stockco? What do you guys do?

Angus Creedon: Okay. So Stockco, uh, in a nutshell is is livestock financing, so we specialize in cattle and sheep finance only. That's all we do. We don't do any House loans, mortgages, anything like that. So, uh, it's a hundred percent financing.

As I said, we we rely on The in in the cattle instances, we rely on NOS tags, so we we maintain our security there. So the idea is that we purchase The stock for you, you have full management control over those stock. When they're sold, [00:07:00] proceeds come back through a stock. Can we take off the purchase price And the accrued finance, and we send you back the profit, and we crack on from there. So the idea of of the facilities That we offer is that it's a off balance sheet finance model that is not tied back to land.

Uh, it frees up a few things in that instance, which we can touch on later. But, uh, yeah, the idea is that it's just Allowing you to to do what you need to do with cattle and sheep, uh, and and basically every minute. 

Sam Fryer: Yeah. So so I'm definitely gonna come back and dig into a few few things that you mentioned there. But what what area do you guys cover?

Angus Creedon: So we're Australia wide. So the stock car, I suppose, will take a step back. Stock car started in New Zealand by a guy called Marcus Cott, and he developed it over there. And and So it's been operational since 95, and he brought it up to Australia about 2015. Um, so we [00:08:00] cover, As I said, Australia wide, we've got, I mean, we've got staff in more a similar position to me.

So what we call, like, a regional livestock manager, Uh, based all over Australia's about let's say 5 of us now, and then we've got our head office in Brisbane where the the rest of the staff are based. Uh, so we get it. We've got a really good coverage of of most of Australia, I would say. We we're sort of a little bit lean in Western Australia, but That's sort of down to the, I suppose, the extensive nature of WA. And so my role as a as a livestock manager, I I look after Liberal Plains North, basically.

So Queensland territory down to Giuseppe and Tamworth, and then we've got other guys based out of Wagga, Victoria and South Australia. 

Sam Fryer: Yep. Mate, it sounds like you guys are spread out anyway, and it sounds like you're you're [00:09:00] continuing to grow. Are you seeing more of a need as, like, is it more people wanting to go down this route and using you guys, like, for instance? I think 

Angus Creedon: yeah.

You know, definitely you're right. There's no thinking about it. It's definitely that's definitely a a good statement. And and I suppose 1 way I look at it is the amount of competitors we have in the space now. So when we started back in 15, we were the only ones offering specialist livestock funding outside of your traditional agency finance.

And now we've got probably 6 or 8 competitors in in that space. Uh, all offering very similar things and and but there's definitely I think as we get into the next generation as well, uh, there's there's always people exploring different avenues of finance. You know, historically, farmers have have used their bank finance, um, and then We went down the line of equipment finance and suddenly they're buying tractors and trucks using using outside finance from the bank. And then, you know, now and and now [00:10:00] we're in this era of of livestock funding, um, with a specialist financer, definitely. Mate 

Sam Fryer: digging into the livestock financing a bit more, and you have already touched on it at the start there, but you know, what, what are the usual terms?

And if we can try and keep it a bit more layman terms. So people like myself that, uh, you know, keep it a bit more plain and simple, for instance, like who owns the cattle and what are the usual terms around your loans that you have? 

Angus Creedon: Okay. So StockCoin maintain ownership of the account. So that's why we keep it what we call off balance sheet.

So Yep. You, uh, said if the bank wanted to see your assets and liabilities, the cattle that you've got funded through Stockco don't actually sit on that. So it's it's almost like a proper share arrangement that we have with stock that you have with stock. Uh, we basically pay you on your performance. Now that that's the the terms around the facility from a from a trading perspective is a 12 month term, maximum time of 12 months.

So we like to see it [00:11:00] stop, um, sold inside that term, we've also got our breeding finance model, which is a it is a 4 year term for cows and 3 year term for ewes. So we found a need there that if you bought a cow, to try and clear that out fully in 1 year was pretty hard to do. So that's why we developed a program to To spread it over 4 years and and, um, and help with those payments because what we wanted to avoid is is using all your money to to pay at the account and nothing left For for running and operating costs. So that was the reason we developed that 1. So the normal that that's the normal terms.

It's pretty straightforward. We, Yeah. We we don't take any mortgages out over over your land. Uh, so our our primary security is in the livestock that we fund. We do get a guarantee, what we call a guarantee from the, uh, from the land owning entity, the the idea is that You're buying a an animal that you're continuing to put weight on and it's gaining in value. So the [00:12:00] the reason we don't have any mortgages against the land is that Majority of the time, the value of that animal keeps increasing, so there's always gonna be profit in the trade. Obviously, we'll touch on it a bit later with your questions around what we saw last year, but that Yep.

Sam Fryer: Mate, you did mention there the guarantoring.

So and and just to clear that up a bit, so say if I was a young person and I, I don't have anyone that would guarantor me, but I am looking into, or I have got a bit of adjustment operation, a leasing operation. Do I still fit in? Am I still eligible if I don't have someone to guarantor? Good 

Angus Creedon: question. Yes and no.

So it's all a case by case basis, but, generally, we like to see equity what we call equity in land or real estate. Now the reasons behind that is is because, Let's say all the cattle get washed away in a flood and, obviously, then you owe you you still need to stop up the money for those cattle. Now the idea by having The equity in land or real estate is that if you had [00:13:00] to borrow some money from the bank, for example, to to cover stock, there was still Room to do that in your in your business. If we had, for example, someone that had an adjustment place And they owned a 12 Land Cruiser and 5 dogs and everything went bad, well, our fallback position is basically 0. So That's a risk appetite that we don't wanna deal in, um, because at the end of the day, we borrow our money, and we need to we've got a set of, I suppose criteria around what our funders expect us to be or who they expect us to be lending money to.

So we've got a bit of a a criteria around that. Not saying that if you've got a gist in the lease, we cannot fund you. What we do with some of our bigger lease Steeze up in, say, the territory of the WA, for example, is they may have an existing cow herd of their own that they own themselves, And we can come in and help top that [00:14:00] up. And the idea around that is we can take security over those those cattle, and that's basically our fallback position as we've got extra Security in in some other cattle that they own, and then we can come in and help help top that help top that up. So, yeah, it's definitely Equity and land is is important, but it's not the be all and end all.

Sam Fryer: Mate, and touching on that bit of risk, the the next question I have for you is, like, you know, the interest rates for a stock co loan is usually higher than most loans. Can you just explain a bit more why? 

Angus Creedon: Yep. So We are higher than what we would look at for traditional bank finance. Now the reason for that is I've sort of touched on a couple of the points is that We are funding 100 percent of of the invoice.

Sometimes with some bank fund bank funding that they They will come to the party on, say, 70 percent, and then you have to come up with the rest of the the rest of that 30 percent. So in this case, we're funding all of it. It's it's off balance sheet, so there is no official [00:15:00] tie back to the land. Um, and there is a risk Of lending money at a hundred percent and it's basically unsecured, so that is itself the risk. So that's why The money that we borrow, obviously, is priced higher, and then we have we we run a business as well.

So we need to make a margin, and then that's why The the finance rate is where it is. But to compare it to traditional bank finance, yes, everyone does that and that's Completely fine, but it is a little bit it it's very different to traditional bank financing, and that's the reason why it comes with a higher higher cost. Yes. I'd 

Sam Fryer: I'd greatly appreciate your honesty and and and you being so open about the questions. But, mate, I I will put you in the hard seat.

And can you give us some of the cons and also some of the pros as well, but I just want to, you know, try and be the person in the middle of know it's hard to, when you, when you are representing stock but for those out [00:16:00] there, young people looking to use this facility, what are some of the cons, and what are some of the pros to using it? 

Angus Creedon: Good question. Good question. And I think it's it's important to discuss all of that because, like you said, yes. I represent Stockholm, but it's It's, uh, we don't wanna see people ever in trouble and it's and we need to make sure that what What is being offered out in the market, everyone understands what it is.

So, um, I feel that we explain that quite well at Stockholm. What I do is say, I think We'll we'll start with, I suppose, some of the cons, um, and then end on end on a positive. But the the big the big con is is the is the cost. Sam, that's there's no doubting No doubting that. Um, so when everyone's factoring in what they're buying and what they're going to be selling Steersport, for example, they're factoring, you know, transport, adjustment, animal health, and then the finance cost.

Now If you're using cash or bank finance, there is [00:17:00] there is extra cost to doing business there. Uh, so that's that's probably the big con. We also back to the equity and land piece, you know, we do we do require or we like to see that. So that can put some people in a position where it's not suitable, um, and I suppose the other the other con would be that it is off It it is off balance sheet, which means that when you said to the bank, look. This is all my assets.

I actually can't put those 200 cows On my balance sheet as an asset. Yeah. That that can be that can have a negative, um, an effect sometimes. Um, and At the end of the day, that's they're they're probably the 3 the 3 cons I would I would suggest is is is What happened in some things and all reason why people go the other way. Uh, but, yeah, definitely, the the cost The cost is up there, and that's just something you've gotta factor in when you're doing all your all your, [00:18:00] uh, all your budgets and things.

Um, and then onto the onto the pros, We are anyone who's who's dealt with the bank on it, and I'm not here to to discredit banks in a way because they we wouldn't be where we are in the industry without them. However, we are a lot quicker to market, a lot quicker to be able to get something across the line Then you would buy going to the bank traditionally. Um, so and we need to be flexible and able to be able to to charge the interest rates we do. Right? Um, so Another pro is that it it doesn't have a strain on your cash flow throughout the time that you have that animal at home or on adjustment.

So what I mean by that is it's you're not being you're not having to dig in your pocket to to find an interest payment or a principal payment every month. Yep. It all just accrues and then comes off at the end when those sell. So that just means that you can direct that money that you would be [00:19:00] normally Paying off on a monthly basis into into other projects, uh, and and I suppose the other pro is that it's It allows people's businesses to scale up when they may not be able to do so with their traditional funding or with Cash, they might have been run short of cash, and and they've got an opportunity to you know, they had a fantastic season, and they they got all this spare country that They would make more money out of buying their own cattle with a stock carrier facility than they would buy just in that country. That makes sense?

Yep. Uh, that's yeah. That's and then you got a question. Well, we can edit this bit out. Yeah.

You got that question about how people use it, so I can go in a bit more about there. Yeah. 

Sam Fryer: No. That's good. Look.

Thanks, Angus. Um, touching on bit of the examples that people how people have used stock co. What have you seen that's worked well and what 

Angus Creedon: hasn't? So when I started with stock card, it was there [00:20:00] was I won't lie. There was a stigma around livestock financing that that you were the that we were the sort of lender of last resort, um, that people only used this when they were in trouble.

But I came to realize with the clients we have on the books that that was probably far far from the truth. We have A number of different clientele. Yes. We have people that are that are are pushed And and or I suppose stress financially and then they and they're looking at stock code too or any other livestock financing to help them get out of that hill, and we definitely have done that in a number of cases is where we've been we've come into their business for a couple of years. They've tried it out.

They've had a couple of good years of of rain, and The banks come back to them and said, yep. Yeah. You you fit back into what we wanna fund now and and pay stock to it. So I think that's a That's a it's a credit for what we do there. So that means we're not there we're not there in that person's business forever.

We're there for a short term, Uh, to get them from point a to point b, [00:21:00] we've got clients that would use this for, as I said before, they might find adjustment paddock or release paddock, Uh, on top of what they already have at home, so we help we help fund that and and stop that place up to jump on those opportunities. We might have clients that are looking to purchase next door or purchase another property. They either have purchased a property and need it, And it and it's stretched that that bank funding that it'll what we call LDR loan to value ratio. So they've stretched that and they need to then stop that place up. So we'll come and help out there.

Um, what else? We have feedlots. So we've got a number of feedlots on that. On the books that use us, uh, either Holly and Soli as a as a funder or, you know, we might help fill up pens as opportunities arise. They might reduce some custom feeding pens and bring in their own cattle, that sort of thing.

Uh, we've also got, uh, family succession is probably a big 1 as well where the next generation is coming through. They wanna get some runs [00:22:00] on the board from a trading perspective so they can say to the bank down the road, hey. Listen. This is what I've done. I can actually prove that I bought and sold these cattle and and and had this profit loss, whatever you call wanna call it.

But at least it's What we call yeah. It runs on the board site. That has helped, uh, in in that instance. And I suppose more on that succession piece is that Parents are willing to do the guarantee and saying under our overall guidance, our kids are going to have a facility in their own name. They're going to Try their own stock, get runs on the board so that, you know, when it comes time to pass it on, uh, that But there's there's history.

There's trading history there that the bank can say, yep. You can you can do this, uh, on your own, and and we're happy to help you out with the succession piece. Um, so that's that's probably where we see a lot of the facility used, utilized. Uh, we've [00:23:00] Probably more in the south, we see it with the sheep and wheat guys. They will harvest their wheat, and they might have that stored in the silos.

Uh, they don't wanna sell it right now, so then we'll come in and we'll fund try and land in and I'll do debit death for 9 in a hundred days and they're gone. So it's in and out, short, sharp. So with the with the way the facility works, you're only charged for the money that's out the door. There's no there's no line fees, what we call line fees. So you've got usually with the bank, you've got you might have a million dollar overdraft, for example.

You've got you've got 500000 of them out the door. So the other 500000, they need to charge you to have that Sitting there, whereas in our business, we don't we don't do that. Uh, so it's it's quite flexible in that piece of people. I'm happy to have it sitting there for when opportunities arise. Um, and then I suppose that's, yeah, that's where we've seen a lot of the the facilities.

And, I mean, there's other examples As well, but it's it's all case by case by case. Everyone's got a different need as we know. And that's the beauty of the egg space. [00:24:00] How did 

Sam Fryer: you go, Angus, uh, a bit of a tough question, but how'd you go into last year when we saw the drastic drop in the marketplace? And obviously, you know, we had cattle that dropped nearly 50, 60 percent, I know around here, there's the heifers fell apart.

Um, how do you guys go there? Was there any, like, have you got some way you can work with those fellas that have been caught out in that situation? 

Angus Creedon: Yep. Yep. And then, like, sugarcoat, it was It's, uh, it wasn't fun and, you know, you you mentioned 15, 60 percent.

There were some cases up to 80 percent, you know, and it was Yep. We were there was no casual there was no 1 insulated from that drop in the industry, you know, regardless of where you were. So, yes, we definitely have Parts across the book that have felt the effects of that, uh, in varying in varying ways. You know, some people, uh, are selling country and that's not due to the stock cap piece, that's [00:25:00] more just to they may have bought country in the last 2 or 3 years And then borrow that money at 2 percent, and then suddenly that term that term money is now 6. So they've got They've got cost they need to account for there, and then the cattle market's done what it's done.

And then if you weren't making any money, it just it just snowballed. Right? So that added. Yeah. It was Yeah.

Unfortunately, it was some of those, uh, but then we've also and then all the way up to people that actually profited from that loss. Right? So there's always winners and losers. There's some people that Stepped in at the right time and bought and bought those stranded all the heifers, which are now looking looking rosy. Uh, so how we've sort of helped our clients through that, you know, some people would think, oh, well, we're gonna go and knock down the front door and and Say stop stomp up with the money.

But if we did that, we wouldn't be in business for very long. So our Primary focus was making sure we can get people through this. So [00:26:00] there's a lot of what we call a shortfalls. So basically what you pointed out to before, you buy something For thousand dollars and sold it for 800. So that's what we call a shortfall there.

So we've got the ability to sit back to the side. Yes. It'll still earn interest, but it's It's something you don't have to come up with straight away. We can Yep. As long as you've got a good plan, you've got, you know, grass in front of you, and you've been I your communication's been fine and you've been great to deal with, we're happy to sit back to the side.

We'll back you into the next trade With the idea of using the margin from that next trade to help chip away the shortfall. So it's it's a long term play and we realize that, And it it comes at a cost to our business, but we realize if we don't do that, then there won't be 1 at the end. Um, and, Yeah. If we had this conversation in September versus February, it's it's a very different Yeah. There's a lot, you know, there's a lot more happier people around now because of where the Markets increase too.

[00:27:00] So I would say there's a lot of cautious optimism. There's, you know, it's it's When you get burnt like that, I suppose, and have have some of those losses that some people have seen, it's it's it's hard to get You head around getting back into it again. So now that we've seen a recovery of somewhat in the prices, it's making that transition a lot easier into the next trade. And and we're hoping, you know, we we're confident that down the track as as the market stays hopefully as it is or even gets better that There'll be profitable trades again, and we keep going. So out of the whole time stock has been going, this was the only time we really saw shortfalls in people's Trading activities or or breeding activities, you know, even through the drought, there was very few, uh, Short falls through there because it sort of was a slow burn, whereas this just happened so quickly.

Sure. And and and the and the drop and I suppose some of the attitudes we saw last year was [00:28:00] around buying was there might have been some people that wanted to buy, but they said, well, why would I buy when The last 10 weeks, it's dropped 10 cents every week, you know. So there was that didn't add to the to the equation And made probably the market drop even quicker. So now it's now it's it's flipped where jeez. I don't wanna miss it Next week, because it could be 20 cents, dear, so that's what feels a market increase, doesn't it?

So 

Sam Fryer: It's a funny industry or industry, it's very cyclical. It'll come back around and touching on that coming back around. What are a couple of tips as a lender should producers do going through that period, going through a period like that, bit of toughness where markets fall away, what should I be doing as a producer communicating with you as a lender to help me get through that period. 

Angus Creedon: I think you've hit in our head. Communication's the big 1.

It's making sure that, You know, you always if we ring, you get back to us or that sort of thing. What what happens is is [00:29:00] when the phone doesn't get picked up, we start to assume the worst, and we wanna we wanna make sure that communication's right. So I suppose it goes back to the the fundamentals of trading. You need to understand your costs and What you're looking to make out of this out of the the subsequent trade, so as long as you're over that and your figures are right and you've got enough grass in front of you or feed in front of you to do so, well, we we're we're getting back to some more normality when it comes to trading again. 

Sam Fryer: Angus, I I appreciate are you sharing your wisdom with stock coats, been there's some bloody good insights in there.

But the other thing I did want to chat to you about was your own journey, your own cattle business journey and also your land ownership journey, which you've which you've achieved recently. But look, starting with the cattle stuff, mate, you you've been building a bit of a cattle business for a while now. What why did you start and how has that journey been? 

Angus Creedon: Started because I suppose my upbringing, you know, we grew up on a [00:30:00] on a on a property with with Brahmin cattle, gray Brahmin that is. And, uh, And and and that was just a passion that's I've had from a from a kid.

So passion was a big 1, and that's what I love doing. So let's Let's go down that line. And, uh, that was the main reason why to get in the cattle side. And and the end goal being that, Like, that I can employ myself full time in our own business is the angle. As much as I love working for Stockco, it it's I would love to work for myself.

Sam Fryer: I think it's everyone's dream to do that 1 day to be full time producers. But how has your journey been? What are some of the challenges that you've faced, and how have you overcome them? The 

Angus Creedon: journey's been it's been for the most part, Jewel, uh, and that's probably the winds that we've had along the way is reinforced while we're staying in. Yes.

There's been challenges. We we get challenges along the way, and that's probably if you can get through that without too much of a Mental or [00:31:00] financial, I suppose, loss, And you I mean, that's where you get your learnings from. Right? So you crack on to the next thing. So I suppose some of the challenges we've had As a small operation is is what everyone deals with in that situation is finding country.

Right? Is finding adjustment, finding lease, And then being able to jump on it when you when you find it. So I've been fortunate in a way we've we've had a few of those, uh, uh, those opportunities, and then that's helped us basically stepping stone to get to where we are today. So 

Sam Fryer: touching on that bit of leasing and adjusting those opportunities, like, you're based in Rocky there. Um, what has been your usual process of going through that?

Do you quickly see an opportunity, go and check it out the property. Or what what what do you do? Do you have some agreement in place? Are you working usually with friends and family that you're adjusting off, or what have you been doing? So I 

Angus Creedon: suppose our big the big 1 that we [00:32:00] did as as a family was we got the opportunity to lease 2 properties about 10000 acres, uh, out in Clermont, uh, about what was that?

4 years ago now. So we were That was sort of the big step to getting into that. And and that was basically came and fell on our lap through 1 of, um, my father's contacts and we went and had a look at property, did the crunch numbers, had a contract in place, and we're away. That was that was the big 1. And then I suppose the other ones that we've been shopping around the edges with is being friends.

Uh, with you Yeah. An agent might say, hey. I've got a paddock here. Would you be interested in it? Yeah.

That's rare as hen's teeth, but if when it does come up, you've you've gotta Jump on it if it makes sense. Uh, and I suppose, yeah, the big the big 1 was like I said out of Claremont, we had our challenges there very much so. It was it was 6 year deal, which we cut short for 2 at at the end of the second year, uh, and and I'll have some massive learnings from [00:33:00] that. I Was very thankful that our parents were involved in it as well because that probably brought some I went in with rose rose colored glasses we had. I wanted to go straight away and why it wasn't here we go.

But, you know, dad was really good. We ran contracts, so we got a lot of things tied up in that that Could have ended badly if we went with the original contract. So I think that's 1 big thing to be aware of is is 1, having agreements and contracts in place, not just relying on a handshake deal. Have, um, have some securities in place around having your cattle on other people's places, and what I mean by that is Like, stop pack for example, we got our security interest is what we call a PIMSY, so personal money security interest, and That's on a register. Right?

So if anyone if if the price was ever sold and all the receivers came in, we could stand there and say, hey. Listen. We've got an interest Denise, Kelly, you cannot take them under your umbrella. So we can you anyone can do that. Anyone can put a Pimsy on When they go [00:34:00] to an additional release place, and I and I highly suggest it.

It doesn't cost much as solicitors can set it up, and it just gives you that little bit extra comfort that if something does go go wrong on nothing to do with you, but with the with the people you're disting off, at least you covered. Um, so that was It was it was a challenging environment we're in. We're fortunate that the market was going up the whole time we were there. So that made it That made it enjoyable because we actually made quite quite a good profit out of when the time were there, but it just really, Yeah. Yeah.

Anyway, it was it was challenging, but it was good. We learned a lot, and and, uh, it got us if we didn't do that, It wouldn't have got us to where we are now. So what I mean by that is we it was profitable and it was it allowed my wife and I to step into Yeah. First place site, it's it's a similar story to what a lot of people do. They build up their account as a adjustment leasing and step into country.

So that was sort of the way we've gone about 

Sam Fryer: it. Can you, touching on that, that land, that land ownership piece that [00:35:00] you've done? Can you tell us a bit more about that, that starter block that you've got a little bit of the bit of background and, and you just quickly mentioned, but you, you, you, you shot over pretty quickly there. You built up a mob and you, what you sold it down to purchase the block, is that what you did, or can you step us through that part? 

Angus Creedon: Yep.

Yep. Yep. So we've with the when I started building up with the mob, so we over that 2 year period, it was a trading Operation. So we yeah. We built we did 2 or 3 trades over that time with winners to feeders and and cows and cattle or PDRCs to cattle and calves.

So when we sold that herd, Pardon me at the end of the time, and that was enough equity, I suppose, or cash To be able to put as a down payment on on the property that we've purchased. , I I've been fortunate to have some pretty good, I'll say, older guys in in my corner over the years that have always said stick with good country And and you'll be right. So and it also comes with where we were at our stage in life. You know, we had [00:36:00] young children and we wanted to make Joy, we're reasonably close, uh, to schools and and to family, and we couldn't step in and buy 10000 acres At the beginning as much as I'd love to, but so it's we were staying within our wheelhouse, and we were fortunate that there was a property we found out at Garnet In really good brigglese scrub soil, that was very much run down. And but it had sort of a hundred and 20 acres of cultivation on it. So it was Excellent soil.

And it was a blank canvas, so I could set it up the way I wanted it to. And and we're fortunate we did that. We we, uh, got the house renovated, and we've been living out here since August, and we've you we've totally changed the property. We've taken it away from Conventional farming and turn it into multi species pastures and rotational intensive grazing. So that's where we're at with that now, and it's it's a it's a damn so different than when we first bought it.

Sam Fryer: Building up that [00:37:00] that, uh, investment piece and that initial deposit like you said, you did a lot of cattle trading there. Did you ever do anything else like some real estate investing or share investing as well to help build up your equity? 

Angus Creedon: Definitely. Definitely. So my wife and I bought a house in town in Northampton that we lived in, and that's 1 thing I'd suggest is is buying What you can afford but have something bricks and mortar, have something, you know, even if it's a hundred thousand dollar house at Conkari, you know, at least it's something That's tangible and and that the bank recognizes as a as an asset.

So we started with our house in Rockhampton. We renovated it, And we also had shares, so I'd I'd I suggest people always put a little bit we chip a little bit every week into our share portfolio, and and it has its wins and losses. But over It's it's been quite good. So we pulled some of our shares out of out of cash some of those in, and we we sold our house. And And the money we also generated from the the trading of the [00:38:00] cattle got us into this place here.

So made it work, and We've weathered the storm when it's come to interest rate increases and things like that. So just to give people an example, when we when we first bought this place, We're paying 20000 dollars a year interest now. It's up to 80. So that's 60 grand extra you've got to find your business, and that's on a small loan. Let's say, you know, You extrapolate that.

At least if you had a 10000000 dollar loan, for example, like, you could just it's hard to get your head around sometimes what people have The effect that that interest rate increases had, say, uh, we were it was good that we've been able to weather 

Sam Fryer: that storm. Have you, um, in, in regards to buying the process of buying that bit of land, did you use a mortgage broker or someone like that to borrow the month to help with borrowing the money or what what process did you go about 

Angus Creedon: that? So when we bought our house in Rockhampton, we went through a a broker, And that was their first it was a reference, and it just [00:39:00] made the process a lot easier because he knew what to ask To to be able to present that to the bank. And, I mean, when you're buying a prop when you're buying a residential home, it's it's it's probably not as invasive around What they wanna know, cash flows and right budgeting and things like that, it's just what's your wages, what's your living expenses, are you able to afford this? Yep.

Happy days. So The broker was good for that. When we went when we transitioned to the to the rural side, the broker only specialized in residential, and I had a few contacts In in the bank that we went with through my career, so it was it was quite easy to set up Meetings with those guys and talk through purchasing that place. In saying that, I think brokers have a very And and we do a lot with brokers through the stock cap piece, and they're getting you're seeing more and more more and more pop up Every every year and and I think they they do bring a lot to the table because they can [00:40:00] present something to the bank that they can work with you to get all that information ready. And before going and presenting to the bank and dealing with those rejections, the broker can really prepare you for that beforehand.

And he might he might go through that process with the broker, and he'll and you'll realize yourself, jeez. Maybe we're not ready to step into something yet. We can't afford it. So It saves a lot of going around shopping around with the banks. Um, so I I think brokers are quite integral in what especially in the rural space, definitely.

Mate touching on 

Sam Fryer: I'll I'll I'm gonna give you an opportunity here. And I just wanna touch on a bit of this type of stuff, like, you're a passionate brahman man, can you I'll let you give a bit of a plug and and what you're up to there with your style. Like, you you have you you have your family style that you help out, and then you your own. Is that right? 

Angus Creedon: That's correct, mate.

Yeah. So we've got Lee John Park Raman's is a mom and dad's operation, and then AJC Raman's is my wife and I. So we basically work it all together. The cows all run together. I do [00:41:00] all the, uh, the AI ing and the repost stuff and and and, you know, we work together on marketing piece and we sell bulls At, uh, Brahmin week and then we're we're going out to big country next week.

So, um, that's sort of I suppose the reason for the Brahmin stud is 1, they suit where we're operating out of. Yep. Uh, we And from a small land operation, it's utilizing, uh, I suppose the most valuable as the most valuable units you can on that land. So by having stud cattle, We do. We we we've been fortunate we've done quite well with them, so it helps with that, uh, our equivalent area that you're running the stud cal on.

You know, If we were running just straight steers, it we couldn't make it 

Sam Fryer: work. And, mate, what does the future look like for you? Have you got any big, hairy, audacious goals coming up or that you wanna try and knock down, or what's the next 5, 10, 20 years 

Angus Creedon: look like? [00:42:00] Like, 10000 acres of beany, it'd be nice. If anyone's got any idea on that, no.

So but I've also gotta be realistic, Sam. Like, The way land prices are at the moment, if you value a place to stand on its own 2 feet, it's near impossible to do at the moment. So it's it's people leveraging off what they already own and Things like that. So as much as I love to have that 10000 acres, it I've also gotta be realistic that it may not happen. Uh, and I'm fine with that.

We've just gotta do what we've got what we can do with what we've got here. So we're moving into or been doing some contract work, so that's Quite a lucrative little market there because I can leverage off my experience with the repress side of things and and and providing Recipients for people do IVF programs. So that's that's a good, uh, thing we've been working on. I do I've done a lot of Regen courses and work around that with our own property and as much as it might be crazy to sound like, [00:43:00] well, I'm really looking into, uh, chicken eggs. So Yep.

That's for a 2 pronged approach. It's it they do wonders for the sort of they're like Mobile fertilizing plants along with being able to value out the country that we've got here, and and the idea being that, uh, we're trying to purchase more country, that's the that's the goal. Right? And and the only way we can do that is to milk as much as we can out of what we've got, Leave in a better place than what we found it and and go from there. We're fortunate where we purchased here Again, it is that it's it's still lifestyle ish in a way.

So with population growth and things like that, we're always picking up equity in the place Because of that. And and are we going to be here forever? We I don't know. And and that's the thing. Plans change, so it could be in 10 years' time, it could be somewhere else.

Never 

Sam Fryer: know mate touching on that, the chicken caravan. So I did an episode with Tim Wise from the food pub is [00:44:00] a really interesting yarn about how he's done. He's even leasing country and running can caravans on that and, um, yeah, definitely have to have a quick little plug for a previous episode, but it's definitely, it's an interesting thing, it's something that, like, I never knew until I started doing this, um, how it goes and different ways of utilizing the land and getting, like you said, the best bang for your buck out of what you got. Yeah. 

Angus Creedon: Yep.

And then and now I suppose I saw a few I I got a scholarship back in the day from the Brahms Society and I traveled over the US, And I saw went to operation at San Antonio that was a feedlot, but they were fully integrated. They had a it was full rotational system. So they had cattle went around first, Followed by sheep and goats, and then they had chickens and egg, uh, chickens and ducks following it. So it was just an excellent operation. They And they sold into Whole Foods at the time was this little, you know, grocery chain in America, which is now worth about 15000000000 dollars.

So they they supply that, but it was just that holistic view of running that country, and they [00:45:00] were just getting as much as they could out of that land. And With the courses I've done through, like, RCS and things like that with and, you know, a lot of the books that are audio books. I shouldn't say I read books. I listen to books. And, uh, Those guys in the states that are doing those sort of things like Will Harris with with the with the tractors and the and the chickens and trying to get, Yeah.

What we're eating these days, it's a lot of processed stuff. So the idea is that I can try and mark a little bit of Homegrown stuff back into the local community, chickens are fantastic way to do that From an egg egg point of view, uh, the the caged egg industry is being phased out so that it presents itself with another opportunity there. Look market growth site. Very much at the, uh, business analysis stage, but it's it they stack up quite well. It's very 

Sam Fryer: very interesting.

Look, Angus, you've been around for a while. You've kicked kicked [00:46:00] around a bit of country and done a few different things, and you've also done a few courses in your time, which 1 did you get the most out of? 

Angus Creedon: Definitely the RCS courses that they offer. So I started with a the business fundamentals course, which is about 3 day course and went over everything. Business related in agriculture and really making things accountable, and that was the first 1.

And then as part of our, uh, leasing operation, I mentioned at Claremont, we we did the grazing for profit course there through in that time as well. And then that's just led on From there, I've done a few personality courses that were offered through, uh, when I was with the linker, and then we've done 1 with Stock Coast. So that was that was interesting to understand, you know, who you are, but also how to communicate with people of different personalities and Mhmm. How they you know, basically, how everyone operates and being able to read people. [00:47:00] So that was that was good in it.

You know, I would do that every day. So that's They're they're definitely some courses I 

Sam Fryer: would suggest. And you also mentioned you've had a few mentors that have helped you out on your journey. A few older fellows, I think you mentioned that that you've been really picking their brains. Have how have they helped you?

And I suppose you have you had anyone that really is how you look up to as a mentor? Yeah. 

Angus Creedon: And now that you, you know, it's fun this this buzzword of mentors that we've got now, but it's, um, definitely, Now that you look back now that I look back on things, I definitely have what we call mentors along the way, and then, you know, they might be here for 5 minutes. They might be here for a few years, but I think it's anyone that's helped you, Yeah. Along the way with advice or or good advice along the way, and that's in in table, good advice.

And, uh, So you definitely had had some of those mother and father. Yeah. They run their own business and and all that sort of stuff. So we've always Unfortunately, I've got my parents as mentors and then, you know, [00:48:00] the guys I've worked for over the years, uh, and, you know, Successful operations along the way, they will be mentors whether I call them up and say, hi, mister mentor. But, no, that they they don't realize are.

But, yes, they definitely they are. And then even in my corporate, um, career, we've got, yeah, several guys in there that have helped their own way. And I think yeah. I don't think we have to I don't think we have to label. You know?

I know some people label. I know people definitely go out and say, hey, Sam. Do you wanna be more mental? Uh, and that's fine. You know?

If you if you've got the confidence to do that, and that's that's great. But I think there's definitely mentors in your life, everyone's life that, uh, that that probably don't that aren't known to each other, is that? Uh, I think it's 

Sam Fryer: a good point, but I think it's also a good point to like, you know, it's good to have outside help to seek that outside help, seek that outside advice. Like, you know, uh, a [00:49:00] lone wolf travels fast, but, uh, a pack of wolves travels far, you know, like if you work with people, you will get further in life than if you just try and slug it down on your own 

Angus Creedon: Couldn't agree more, and I was very much the attitude when I was younger that I can do everything myself. And it takes a bit of time to work that out, but everyone has to go through that and learn that himself.

But, um, when you start when you take this step, I suppose, start asking for advice from on Around different things, you're like, well, why did not do this years ago? But, you know, everyone's different. It takes people different times to do that. Think 

Sam Fryer: stubbornness, mate. I got a bit of stubbornness in here.

It takes me a while to check. You can do that. Right. Thank thank you very much for your time. I always have 1 question to wrap up the episode.

And and for you, what would be your 1 piece of advice for the next generation or someone currently in the process of chasing that dream of land ownership. 

Angus Creedon: Uh, good question. I knew you'd asked me this. Uh, so [00:50:00] A few things I suppose, you've you've got plenty of time. If you're young, don't stress about it.

You know, you have have some goals in place. I think that's important, Right then, don't be upset if you don't reach those goals. Right? It's everything everything changes a lot, throws curveballs, And you just gotta be I think if you can adapt to that, that's that's the big thing is being have some goals, but adapt to it if it doesn't happen. And I think the other 1, like I said before, buy yourself some bricks and mortar or or something along those lines and To get a start, and it it'll get you very much in in the bank's always get on to that next step, clean ownership.

And probably the last 1 would be get involved in your community. There's there's there's so many things that come out of that, not only, Yeah. Feeling good about what you're doing, giving back to community, but there's some opportunities that come out of being involved. If you just sit [00:51:00] at home on your hand hill, Although, those opportunities don't present themselves, do they? 

Sam Fryer: No.

No. And and then also, if you wanna create somewhere you love to live, you gotta give back. You gotta you gotta help be a part of that, um, to create that home. Look, Angus, thank you very much for your time today, you've been a bloody wealth of knowledge, and and I've really enjoyed the enjoyed the conversation. So thank you very much.

Angus Creedon: Thank you, Sam. I really appreciate it. And, uh, yeah, all the best everyone season for the rest of 20 24 and onwards and upwards, 

Sam Fryer: I like the way you had to check the calendar to make sure what year was.