#31: Finding his own way after succession with Ashley Kirk

Welcome to Episode 31 of A Place To Call Home Podcast.

G'day and welcome to another episode of A Place to Call Home podcast, on today's episode we chat to Ashley Kirk from Rockley Brahmans. We cover a range of topics on this podcast, and I am very grateful for Ashley being so open and generous while sharing his experiences.

Throughout this Episode we chat about.
- Going through Johnes disease
- Starting the succession conversation
- Finding the right succession mediator
- How succession can affect a family dynamic
- Life after a succession process

You can find out more about Ashley and Rockley Brahmans below.
About Rockley Brahmans - Red Brahman Bulls for sale since the 1950s
Rockley Brahmans (@rockleybrahmans) • Instagram photos and videos
Rockley Brahmans | Moura QLD | Facebook

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This episode is brought to you by,
Australian Brahman Breeders Association
Australian Brahman Breeders Association
Australian Brahman Breeders' Association Limited | Rockhampton QLD | Facebook

Transcript

Sam Fryer: [00:00:00] Ashley, thank you very much for jumping on the place to call home podcast. Before we get too far ahead of ourselves, can you tell everyone a bit more about yourself, where you're from, what do you do and throw in a few family stats as well? 

Ashley Kirk: Thank you Sam. So , Ashley Kirk grew up at Bejewel, which on a place called Rocklea so , part of a, part of a family business we're breeding red brahmins living in Rockhampton at the moment and, , married with my wife Kate and, and three kids, , we're strong little family unit and , 

growing up in the countries that, , it was always a, a , very special to us. 

Sam Fryer: How old are your kids, Ash? 

Ashley Kirk: Oh, so I've got a six year old and a four year old and two and a half year old. So we're , quite busy, but , everything's going well. Started school and , feeling a bit more that freedom and , it's going along well, very, very happy.

Sam Fryer: We're, we're bang on. We've got a six, a four and a two as well. And you seem a lot more calmer cause I don't know about you, but this morning I was out of chaos trying to get these kids to school and in between everything 

Ashley Kirk: else. No, we've been through [00:01:00] that. . Once they're off, it's everything settles down, but , it's a bit of a challenge.

It's a bit of a challenge. Especially towards the end of the week when they're all worn out. 

Sam Fryer: Look, where did you go up? You just slightly touched on it, but can you just give us a bit of a, bit more of a brief of where you grew up and what'd you get up to? Yes, I grew up 

Ashley Kirk: at Rockley, which is at Bejewel.

Obviously, Rockley Brahmins is, is, developed from the property of Rockley. So, , I went to a little school called Bejewel there. , had a great, great upbringing. , used to go fishing and shooting and all things country kids do. So, , very privileged and , had a great great upbringing.

2 younger sisters. , we had a lot of fun growing up. , and then ventured off to boarding school at Yipoon St. Brendan's. When I was, for year 8, so, I was pretty keen to go, , a lot of, a lot of more boys there. I was the only boy in the whole class, so I was pretty keen to, to , see a few more people and have a bit more fun.

So, , that's , that was my schooling. 

Sam Fryer: What did you get up to after school, Ash? 

Ashley Kirk: So Sam, , I went straight home weighed up what I wanted to do and there [00:02:00] was an opportunity for me to come home. So it was a, easy decision, probably a no brainer. , there was work there and , I was very fortunate and lucky to be able to come home and given a position.

And always something I loved and grew up doing. So it was , no, as I said, an easy decision and something I was, didn't have to think about too much. Did you 

Sam Fryer: ever think about or did you have those thoughts about going elsewhere or working on other properties? Around the place, or was it always finish school, come home, was, was your mindset?

Ashley Kirk: , no, pretty strong mindset of, , finishing school, heading home. Obviously mates that were getting apprenticeships and looking at other options, but , I just, I suppose I thought myself fortunate at the time to be able to have the opportunity to go home, so I sort of grabbed it with both hands and, and didn't look back, really.

Sam Fryer: It's pretty interesting. I was fortunate enough to go away. Well, mum and dad got sick of me and said, get out of here. I mean, I got back from boarding school, but it's always interesting the different journeys that people take those that grew up on a property, whether you are coming straight home or, [00:03:00] or getting to work out and about.

And, and it's always just funny how, how it pans out and life pans out. Like there's no right or wrong way, but it's just really interesting what people, some people I know always wanted to go out. But they, they, they had to come home and, and, and vice versa. Like I've had people that all they want to do is come home, but they didn't have the opportunity to get it.

So it's fortunate enough that you did, you were lucky enough that you wanted to come home and the opportunity arose and touching on that opportunity. When you first came home, you, you actually took over the family Brahman stud pretty early. Is that right? 

Ashley Kirk: Oh, I wouldn't say that Sam. , grandfather, he started he, he passed away when I was 15 at boarding school.

So I didn't get a, , a lot of chance to, to learn off him as a Brahmin breeder. So , dad took on that role and, I couldn't remember exactly what time I probably would have taken over stud duties, but always had an interest and dad allowed me to, work within that role and , he was always there to support [00:04:00] me, but I suppose I, , took that on and made the decisions and , he just backed me with those stud decisions and was very supportive and , I was lucky to, to be able to, , continue that on.

Sam Fryer: Like you said, your, your grandad was a key partner stud and, and it's been around for over 70 years. The family stud, like he started it. Long until it was your grandfather or great grandfather? , 

, . So grandfather, , 1954. So, , that was the place of Broccoli. His name was Arnie.

Ashley Kirk: And, and, and our oldest son is called Arnie. So that was pretty cool to continue that name on. , grandpa, grandpa was a, , a pioneer. Brian Breeder we started with Waverley and Wetherby and Cherokee bread lines. He was one of the first importers of Brahman genetics from, from America.

, held many rock records at Rockhampton Railway for, for a long period of time. So , very successful and very well liked reader.

Sam Fryer: You were mentioning on the phone when we, when we chatted previously that very early on, you guys were hit with a pretty extraordinary disaster when you first came back, you guys [00:05:00] were one of the first ones affected by Yoni's disease. And can you give us a bit of a what it was like going through that and a bit of a background of the disease and how, how it came to be?

, , so 

Ashley Kirk: that happened in 2012, Sam. So we were probably, we were cruising along, we were quite content selling a lot of herd bulls, always been successful, had repeat buyers and , had a few cows that were just down in condition. This was at the place at Rocklea Bejewel 3 cows, just a bit skinnier than normal and kind of did some invest, wanted to do some investigating and see what, what's going on.

Can we solve this or fix that? , I suppose that led to, , getting a bed out and finding, um, BJD, which is Bovine Yoni Disease, which , never heard of didn't know anything about. So, , I had to learn quite quickly what it's all about. , how it spread, originally it was only sort of said to be in parts of Australia, Victoria New South Wales, some of those wetter Environments, but obviously that wasn't wasn't the [00:06:00] case.

So, , it was a quite chaotic. Government Cattle Council, AgriForce, , sort of, , no one knew how to tackle it. It was all a bit of a learning curve for everyone, but certainly tipped our business on our head. We were, we were, we were going on quite well and , just that uncertainty, feeling of helplessness, loss of control we're talking to clients, trying to, trying to help them along the way and, there was plenty of tears and, , not a very nice time, 

but , we just, we just managed through the best we could at the time and we're at the other side now, but , not, not the best, best time. It took a few years to, to get, past all that. 

Sam Fryer: What situation was you heard in coming out of dealing with that disaster?

Ashley Kirk: Well, Animal, we sort of bred, home bred, so they, they've tracked down every bull we'd sold, every animal got rid of them in one way or another, tested them so , it was a huge undergoing, a lot of money spent, a lot of, , a lot of stress and pressure on, not only us, but our clients , had to learn what we had to do to follow the rules [00:07:00] and navigate through the policy on the run and , we're just looking for light at the end of the tunnel really, which was Probably, IVF was a way we could, keep keep those those genetic. Kept me going anyway. I think dad's sort of, he probably prefers the commercial side of things. So, him, I doubt he would have kept it going. And I think he'd attest to that. But , I was certainly keen to to keep continue it and work out a way with, to moving forward how we, how we get out of this, dilemma.

Sam Fryer: So following on from that, you successfully got the stud back up on its feet. Like you said, through IVF, importing genetics and everything like that, that you're doing to try and bring that quality back into your stud is, is how long did it take to recover and get the, your, your program back on its feet?

Ashley Kirk: Oh, so we sold our first stud bulls again in 2016. So , four year gap, four years on the sidelines, which was. Quite hard when you've been to Rockhampton Railway for, [00:08:00] since your grandfather started. So, , that was hard to take, but, you, you look at the positive out of it and, we , you see things differently, I suppose, and I suppose that's where our data collection side of it, that came into it, but , no, it's 2016 we started, we had three, I think two bulls go up to big country and then, slowly, you Develop them from there, but , certainly a slow, slow process, when we're selling, 6 decks of balls at a time going back to just a couple.

It's , a lot of rebuilding, a lot of patience. , a lot of, you know, IVF is not easy too, so you have your ups and downs and . It's it was a long journey back. But we, we did it successfully. And, I didn't spend a lot of time in marketing and promotion and, trying to rebrand, engage with the clients again.

So, , , we felt like I did everything in my control to kind of, enter the market again. 

Sam Fryer: Look, moving on from that, succession is a conversation that I believe we don't talk about enough in Australian agriculture. And you have a really interesting story of your own and one that [00:09:00] resonated pretty closely to me and what happened to us personally.

But going back to the start, when did you first start talking about succession in your family business? 

Ashley Kirk: Oh, I reckon I think Sam about 2015, I reckon rings a bell. , beef week. They had Rabobank was doing this discussion on succession. So from memory that comes to mind. , we, we , my parents and myself went to, , went to that and sort of first, first, started talking and, and just, discovering, , that there's needed to be a conversation had at some stage.

So, , Beef Week 2015, which I met Kate in 2012 when I was going through, the BJD process. And , I suppose having a partner and kind of, , it was probably the conversation starter there knowing that, , things were developing and it'll come a time where we're wanting to have a Get married, settle down and have a family, so I suppose that's probably what prompted 

Sam Fryer: it.

Was that one of those workshops that Railway Bank ran? They ran [00:10:00] like a few session workshops. Must have been around, , 16 or, , around then 15 it would have been. , , 

Ashley Kirk: I reckon it was 2015 from memory. , no, they were one of the. First ones that I'd heard that sort of had started it off. So , obviously a lot more going on now in that space, but , that was, the first time we sort of engaged with the succession side of 

Sam Fryer: things.

We we attended one of those that Rabo put on in Townsville and it was the greatest thing just because we didn't, we kind of were in a room. Doing a workshop with a lot of other businesses and family businesses. And it's a great way to start the conversation because it wasn't as confronting all about us.

It was all about everyone else. You can go there and kind of be like, Hey, how about old Joe? Or what's he up to? And that made it a bit easier coming back home and having conversations. But , it was around that same time. It must've been 14 or 15. They ran that and I really felt comfortable, I think mom and dad felt more comfortable too, being in that situation, not as confronting, I would say, bringing out someone.

But like, , so following [00:11:00] on from that, did you, you obviously went to the event and started having conversations back at home. Is this how it kind of started? And at what point did you, did you look to bring in an outside mediator at some point to try and help with the process? 

Ashley Kirk: Following on from that, we , had discussions that sort of, came to some dead ends.

 , couldn't sort of get any momentum after that. , 2019. So, sort of 3 years later, we. We engage with the media. So , it took a bit of time there, but a bit of pushing and , got to a point where we engage with someone and had a family meeting one on one, which was, which was good.

. We we engage with John Hall who's one of the better, better facilitators. So , everything went smoothly. We had some, plenty of progress and put some plans in place and , that, that was the start of it. It sort of fizzled out a little bit then. And then we , did a bit of work with our accountant.

We moved on to another facilitator who was, not great for from our side of [00:12:00] things. And then, , we. We, , finished up with a group called Proactive who got us an outcome in the end. And so, , quite a challenging, frustrating, ongoing process, a lot of pushing and pulling back and , but we got there in the end, but , definitely a journey and a process.

Sam Fryer: I think that's a bloody big point that you raised is that you, you guys kind of like didn't settle until you found the right one. And, and it, and it is the right one for both parties too. Like, it sounds like you went through what about four or five different mediators or, or people that went through helping with the process until you settled on the right one.

And, and, it's a tough conversation to have because there's two parties involved. In it, but you have to kind of get two parties liking that one person to be able to have people starting having those conversations and, and proactive has come up previously. And, and we use proactive ourselves and we were kind of on a similar route where we used our own accountant and we were bouncing around different people, [00:13:00] but bringing in the proactive and someone who actually professionally deals with it.

I know they weren't cheap, they really helped fast track and get answers that we needed. And in the longer run, I think it's saved us a bucket load of money on for both sides of the family. What would, what would have been one of your learnings from that process of finding the right one for yourselves?

Did you do a lot of pre calling, were you talking to friends and family about who they used or how did you go about finally setting, settling on and getting an outcome out of one? Are you proactive? 

Ashley Kirk: Oh, , very, it was a pretty challenging process. Sam, , mum and dad probably would like to, they'd like to pick their own and Kate and I would like to pick their own too.

So it was a bit of a negotiation trying to, find the right people for both of us, but have, succession being led by parents, you kind of, let them guide it. So, , I think that, was part of the learnings as we went was, to find the right fit for everyone.

. . , and just trying to be open [00:14:00] to, to the right people to get an outcome. But , certainly , not the easiest process, but , , certainly we found a facilitator. , helped, helped our journey. And, even the ones that weren't, we didn't think were great. We, we learn along the way and that's all part of the puzzle.

Really? , we didn't like the direction they wanted to go with, with the, planning, but , you just go through the process. And one fellow in particular, we got to a point where we were like, no, we, we can't deal with these, we're out. We're . . It's it's not the way we want it to head.

We don't think it's fair for anyone or the whole of the family, really. 

Sam Fryer: What was the dynamic in your business at the time? Were you a partner in the business or were you just like a, like an employee or what was it kind of structured leading into the succession? , I was a 

Ashley Kirk: partner, but kind of on paper.

, I didn't feel like I probably had ownership. I, I was, , I don't want that to sound bad, but kind of. , on paper as a partner, but didn't feel like I had a lot of ownership. , a lot of assumptions what, what may happen or what I might get or, what my sisters may get, so, , [00:15:00] just just those assumptions there that weren't clear.

So I suppose going into. Facilitation. , just looking for a plan. Really. We just want to know, at this time, this is going to happen. And, we got security, we got a family, we know, financially where we're heading, where we're tracking , making those decisions on our own was, was, was what we're looking for.

And, and , knowing that, my parents have both worked hard. They deserve to do what they do. You know, long term, so , it's, it's negotiation back and forth and understanding where they're coming from and, trying to, explain where we're coming from as well, so , different, different generations have different ideals and different upbringings.

So , just trying to bring that all together and, be understanding and compassionate, I suppose, to, to, to come to, get an outcome. 

Sam Fryer: Like it doesn't sound bad, what you're saying with, when you mentioned about partner on paper, but not partner, how you feel and in the business, because that's a very common occurrence you hear might, they might get their name in the livestock business, or they might get they might get their name on a little [00:16:00] parcel of land or something, whatever it is that.

The way that people go, but usually it's and I'm trying not to make it sound bad, but usually there's a lot of benefits to having a young couple 

yes, you are a partner if they look at the documents, but deep down, like personally, I just used to rock up at seven o'clock and start my day, knock off at six 30. And I could not tell you what I was going to do the next day. Most of the time I just get told where I'm at, what I'm up to, and that's a very.

And it's not one that's spoken of a lot because no one wants to sound bad or ungrateful, but when you start losing the clarity of the direction where you're heading in life and you start having kids it can not only affect you, you, your family personally, and you, and the dynamics of the family, but also mentally too, it's a massive toll because as a father, you you are starting to be in that provider role, but looking after the caretaker role and you can't even care for yourself in 10 years time because you [00:17:00] have no idea what's going on, which is something that is a big overhang on a lot of families and younger, like the next generation.

And touching on that family dynamic, Ashley, how, how much did that change throughout the process of it? The I'm probably. Touching on a bit of the relationship, was there some angst starting to build as you walk through the succession process? , 

Ashley Kirk: there was. . . Especially when it came to the big proactive meeting, we've been through, three facilitators, there was pressure there.

There's a, , we're kind of, all feeling a bit uncomfortable. I think . And then coming to that meeting. . I, I felt like the bad guy, to be honest, like on the outer like I was pushing my parents to do something they didn't really want to do. . , I felt expected just to be patient and kind of wait until they were ready.

But, as you said, with a young family, we needed some securities and future and , it wasn't sustainable the way we were trucking from our side, I was happy, I was happy going along, but it come to a point where I'm like, no, we gotta, it's something we got to get [00:18:00] an outcome here.

And, and , that meant going a separate ways, but , no, it's. , obviously, time heals things, so we're all still , all a family and catching up and , it's, it's difficult time, but , with time it, it it gets better, but , certainly a challenging sort of process at the time. 

Sam Fryer: I want to go on a bit more later on about where you're up to now and what you're, what you're doing going back. Did you ever think looking at the start of this process that you'd be in a situation you're in now where you're not part of the family business and, you're out on your own.

Did you feel like that was a thing? 

Ashley Kirk: No, no, no, I never dreamed of it really. Having grown up at Rocklea, I, I always saw myself going back there, me stepping up and dad stepping down, I suppose. . Always wanted to remain part of that family business, that was Very important to me.

So to have that, not come to fruition was, , it was hard to accept. , I , felt rejected and , it took a lot of time to, to accept[00:19:00] that's not the way, that was going to play out, even though it had played out in my head , I had to, had to , as I said, except that, that wasn't, wasn't the outcome.

That's 

Sam Fryer: that's a huge one. I don't look on, thank you very much for being open and it's bloody raw what you're talking about here. Like, and personally, like I said, like this is exactly pretty else situation that we are in where I kind of walked in. And I always got told, we had conversations around like one day, you could, you'll be, this is be yours, you'll be running the show, you can continue the family legacy and like coming out of the other side of succession there, it wasn't like we got out and very, very turbulent times, very trying times.

And I think that I really felt like a failure. To tell you truth, like that was where my biggest thing, like we're, we're fifth generation and I, and I hate throwing that around, but the thing is, is when you're in it, I've been surrounded by it since I was a kid, I, I sat around with granddad mustering, talking to old drover tales, yarning [00:20:00] like that.

And then to be the failure to stop that continuation of, of, of the business, I would say like, and I've, I've worked on trying to. Think differently, but shit, it was hard to get through because I remember at the time when we finally got out, there was probably a big relief because I finally had control of my own life and future, but at the same time, like I went into mourning for years.

Like I, would it taken me a good two years, year and a half, I reckon talking to Emily and, and, money, money just getting over it now, really. But the mourning process of that, like of the future, you kind of had. Thought about where you're working towards your whole life. And it was a decision I made to get out and I had to live with it, but it still didn't take away the fact that it was, it was grief.

Like it was dealing with the loss of what you were always thinking of or going towards. So, and like, touching on that sense and that grief, how, how, how did you go with coping with that? We're dealing with that family, like, I suppose the stopping the [00:21:00] family legacy and I'm going to come back to, I know it's a bit of a point, but at that time you had that feeling like, you were stopping the family legacy.

Ashley Kirk: , I think I've touched on it a little bit before. , just that, , felt that sensory rejection, , took time to overcome and accept. , no, similar, similar what you're saying there, Sam. , just , you, you, you have that idea in your head and it's , you feel the pressure probably to continue, continue a legacy having, , and it's quite obviously quite common, but, , it's, it's not easily and , it's mentally draining and , you just need that support around you to, to, to keep picking yourself up and, and keep, keep going and then choose another path and, be positive and, and, and look towards that was a, that keeps you going.

Sam Fryer: Now, it was a tough journey for you all, for your whole family and you and yourself. And on a positive, you are through the other side. And I really want to dig into what you guys are up to now, cause it's bloody exciting stuff, but before we do leave this part, is there anything else [00:22:00] like reflecting on what you've gone through that could have helped the process at the very start to where you are now?

Ashley Kirk: I, I think I just keep going back to, it's, it's a journey and a process. There's, there's no right or wrong, no easy decisions, for all involved. It's, it's challenging and it's negotiation. It's back and forth and it's , communication's the key, but only you can help control your side of it.

But, but others, you, you don't have control over. So, , it's, it's tolling when, from my side, when I was kept pushing, pushing, pushing. So, , no, just a journey, a process and you keep moving forward as you go. But , just trying to have those conversations and, and understanding, both parties and all parties where they're coming from.

So it's , trying to be understanding, but, still getting your point across at the end of the day or where you want your life to head or what you think's, right or wrong for your family or what you think is fair or the path you, like to 

Sam Fryer: choose. So ending up after succession, [00:23:00] where, where are you guys now?

What are you guys up to? And how have the cards fallen? So we, 

Ashley Kirk: we left Ungara, the property at Marra 2021. We had Elsie, the youngest on the way. So we left the property to get an outcome to, to go with the succession plan as we wanted. So that was, I suppose, a ballsy move from outside or, , we could have sat back and waited, but that was, we'd come to a point where we're like, no, we've got to get out of here.

And, we need it. We need an outcome and never lived in town. Never, only ever moved from Rocklea to Ongara when, when BJD hit, I had to move over there to kind of, Continue to start, so sort of packed up and left there to continue things on where I was quite comfortable at. So, , so living in Rockhampton now kids are at school.

We got a manager on the property at Angara. We just. Looking to employ another person to help with [00:24:00] him. , , a lot of exciting things going on. We've got our, our own plans, visions, goals. We've got financial independence. We've got a lot of debt. So that's a motivation to work a lot harder as well.

So, , no, we're excited. Plenty to do. Plenty in the pipeline and , definitely out the other side and, and , enjoying our, our chosen path. 

Sam Fryer: Throughout this whole process, you've been able to continue the family stud legacy of, of the, of the studies grandfathers started out. Can you tell us a bit more about where the stud is today and how it's going?

Ashley Kirk: , no, we're going great guns. , you're kicking a lot of goals. , quite amazing story really from, BJD to, to, to kicking it back off. , I think we're, leading the breed in a way that's, helping a broader industry. , we're very proud of our success and. We make an effort to celebrate that probably hadn't done that a lot in the past, but doing our own thing now we , make a point of that , and I'm very proud and it's been a long journey, but we feel like we've got a consistent product and , something to, to bring to the, [00:25:00] to the wider world.

Sam Fryer: And it's probably, we, we weren't clear enough on it, but you like, that's, that's one thing that ended up that come out of the succession is that you continued on with the family start. How did, how did that process go? Was it always your dad didn't want to do it anymore and you were able to move it onto your property and continue it?

Or was it, what was that like? 

Ashley Kirk: Oh, so , when I moved to Ungara, we started the stud over there and then, , just through our facilitating obviously I had a passion towards the stud and put a lot of effort in, so , dad was very, very good on that side of things, he, part of the deal was I did get the stud, so, very fortunate.

And I'm very grateful that, , I was given that, that opportunity. So , no that was all a smooth process that side. So we , very fortunate to, to continue that on now. 

Sam Fryer: So following on from Yoni's disease, succession, a few other things in between, it has been an incredible achievement [00:26:00] to still have the stud going and going strong.

You just mentioned that you topped the, what was it? The recent All Breeds sale there. So congratulations. And that's like, it's a big achievement for everything that you've gone through and are at now. What do you attribute to the success of the stud and what's helped you get to this point? 

Ashley Kirk: I suppose perseverance, patience a strong mindset, um, , no, I'm, I'm quite driven.

 , I, I, I chip away. , put a lot of thought into the direction we want to head, long term. So, . And then, with, I suppose, the Yoneys journey, the BJD, we, , we had a lot of help from Southern producers that sort of had been through that and experienced that. So, so drew off them a bit.

. And I suppose sport rugby union was a big part of my life. So , just having that outlet away from work keeping physically fit. I coached. After I played as well. So I think that helped, I was, helped me get through where I got an outlet, you hear of plenty of people staying at home and working and not having much involvement [00:27:00] with the community or, it's good to get out and, you get it and talk to people and you forget about what's going on at home.

So I think, , Union was a big part of that. I think that helped me get me through it as well as, friends and family and support around me. 

Sam Fryer: So, what posse were you playing in rugby? 

Ashley Kirk: Oh, I was a center, a bit of fullback and wing, , in 

Sam Fryer: the back line. Just a pretty boy. Didn't do any work, just stood out there and waited for the ball.

. 

Sam Fryer: A couple of other things I really wanted to dig in a bit more, what you get up to at the start. Can you just elaborate on some of the data collection? You mentioned this before recovering out of Yoni's disease. Can you just talk us through a bit of your data collection?

What do you do and, and how important that is for your business? 

Ashley Kirk: , I touched on it previously. . So, sitting on those sidelines, not selling, I, I don't know how it really came about, but I, I just thought we got to be, measuring more. We can't just keep picking the best looking bull out of a sale and think you're moving forward.

Like, just because you're spending money doesn't mean you're moving forward. So. , I just made a [00:28:00] decision to join breed plan and, started off small without, and just our weights slowly did some carcass collections and, moved on to fertility. Now we're doing birth weights, which, there's not too many Brahman breeders doing that at the moment.

So, , we're in morphology. We measure everything we can at the moment. So we're leading the way in that. , it's exciting. I love it. I was still like a phenotypically good looking animal, but , measuring and data is, , become a big part of what we do. And , just balancing that out between looks and, and what's under the skin.

Sam Fryer: And what are you using for that? Like what type of software or hardware are you using to collect the data? 

Ashley Kirk: We're in the process of using stockbooks just the company, but , we're slowly piecing it all together. We're certainly not leading the way in that, but we've got plenty of room for improvement there.

But , no, we threw the Gallagher and. Onto, onto stock books and then through to breed plan. So , we've still got a few systems to iron out, but , it's all getting entered and coming out , [00:29:00] as an estimated breeding 

Sam Fryer: value. Now you did mention that you did some importing of genetics and stuff like recovering on from Jonas disease.

For us non stud people, can you just explain how you got into that? What's the process of importing genetics from overseas? 

Ashley Kirk: Oh, so , I, grandfather's, imported live cattle back when you could in the 80s we, that shut down at a, in the 90s, I think, I believe, but , and then we were allowed to use semen still.

So, , we're still using a lot of imported genetics from America some South African genetics came in later on. But , and I suppose now studs looking for opportunities. For ourselves to sell semen in those overseas markets. Recently went to Thailand in the last year. , we got semen going to Botswana and , looking, South, South Africa.

, plenty of opportunities there. We're just looking exploring them and I suppose having time in the office and not being on the [00:30:00] property. , it allows me to explore those opportunities. 

Sam Fryer: Sorry, I'm going to go on a tangent, but I think it's phenomenal. Do they go, like you obviously milk the bull, freeze it, and then who does like the trading or how do you export, who does that middleman, like finding the market for that?

Ashley Kirk: , so we use Rocky Repro. It's a reproduction center in Rockhampton. So we're lucky it's nice and close. So they do negotiating and , work out how it transports there. And , we, we I suppose because they have a good social media presence and a good website, people look to us and , we help them to a point and then we hand it over and it's facilitated then they work out what it's going to cost to get over there and how they get it over there.

And, I agree on a price and , then it, . Ends 

Sam Fryer: up over there. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but you were involved with the Frontier Genetics recently. Like it's a sale that's kicked up, Oh, no, a couple of years ago. But can you tell us a bit of a background of Frontier Genetics, what they got up to and your involvement in it?

. . So we had our [00:31:00] first annual sale last year. I mean, the group has been together probably two and a half years now. Sort of 10 like minded Queensland. cattle seed stock producers. You know, we've got a, over a 5, 000 breed plan measured Brahman females. So, there's power in numbers.

Ashley Kirk: , just an amazing group of people successful in their own businesses. So, , it just started small and it's got to a point where, , we had. Oh, 100 odd bulls last year, I think a few dropped out, that might have been back to 80, but then , this year, plenty of planning going on now, so in the pipeline.

But , great group of people and it's they measured cattle, breed plan recorded. They're grass fed and they remain on property. , we're always looking to find new ways of doing it. But , certainly direction we're heading in, as our, our stud, continues and , we've just got the same visions and , just learning a lot from, from the group.

So, , it's exciting. It's added another dimension to our auction system. So [00:32:00] for us, it's , it's been a great process to learn a lot and enjoying the journey with Frontier 

Sam Fryer: Genetics. And why Brahmins? What makes them the breeder choice for you? I'll let, I'll let you spruik them up a bit. I mean, I 

Ashley Kirk: suppose, as you said, it's in your blood and it is in my blood.

. They're intelligent. They're adaptable room for improvement in the breed. Like, there's a long way to go. We can match any breed for carcass efficiency off grass and on, and in the feedlot they perform, and it's just a lot of the breeders, they're just great people.

Ashley Kirk: We've sort of found them as a family. And, when we went through our BJD, so many people offered to help and support us. And, they, they they feed off your success as well. I think they know through the journey we've been through and. , just very supportive. So, it's not just the cattle, it's the, it's the breeders as well.

We have a long term history of the Kirk family. There's still plenty of breeding Brahman. So, , , we just we love them.

Sam Fryer: Look, Ashley, I have a [00:33:00] few questions. Always wrap up. So with the podcast and one of those ones is, have you done any courses that have really helped you in your business or your journey to where you are now?

Ashley Kirk: , I can't single down one, but I've come up with two. Like I did the rural leadership program down at Marcus Altman. It was when, , we were, we walked far into BJD and, and Don Lawson, Lawson Angus, he was helping me along and sort of pushed me into the program. So, , that was a big thing for me to get in my comfort zone and kind of learn those skills.

That I, I didn't have. So that was that was 1 that certainly went a long way for me to to. I suppose, support my, my, leadership role that I, I see myself in. And then I joined the Graham Act and Beef Connections program. That, that was 2015. So that's a mentoring program where they match you with a mentor in industry.

And I was matched with a fellow called Ken Rich, who's. Unfortunately, not still with us, but , lovely guy, big picture thinker very positive, [00:34:00] supportive, um, , he helped me, put a plan together to market and, and sort of work our way through BJD so, and, and rebrand on the other side.

So, , those 2 programs are very, Beneficial for me, and then I was lucky enough to be a mentor on the, on the beef connections program as well. So, the sides are flipped. And , I learned a lot in that journey as well. Working with a younger person to help them guide them along with with a fellow called Adam Coffey was also in the same program that I did initially.

So, , those programs that , certainly kick started me to be become the person I am now. 

Sam Fryer: And as soon as they already covered the mentor question, which, which saved me one, but lastly, what would be your one piece of advice for the next generation on their land ownership journey or in life? Oh, I 

Ashley Kirk: suppose it's being open to change, trying to, trying to question why you do the certain tasks you do, certainly from our industry, our agriculture, you, you get set in your ways, you do something because [00:35:00] your granddad's done it or your father's done it, but , it's just trying to try to understand why you do it. And is there a better way to do it and be open to that change? Oh, , there's plenty, plenty of things then, seek further education, there's so many opportunities out there, isn't there now courses, free days, and it's just trying to surround yourself with the right people and, if you need help, ask for it, and then, as long as you've got something to offer in return, there's plenty of people in, the broader life in our industry that are willing to help, I think, so it's just , engaging with them and, and , choosing your path in life.

Sam Fryer: Ashley, thank you very much for your time today. It's been a cracker of a conversation and thank you very much for being so open to as we've gone through some pretty tough topics. So, I hope you have a cracking day and thank you very much. Thanks.